Information Gleaned from Domestic Content Labels
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From: Jeff on 14 Mar 2007 23:22 "Hachiroku ハチロク" <Trueno(a)AE86.gts> wrote in message news:go2Kh.10814$S06.10006(a)trndny08... > On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 01:58:14 +0000, C. E. White wrote: <...> > And that also explains why a Camry with a "J" VIN had 75% Domestic content > (in 2005) Also, some parts probably came from the US. Toyota actually imports catalytic convertors into Japan. While cats are expensive, that probably doesn't explain the 75% figure, though. Jeff
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 15 Mar 2007 10:52 On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 03:22:01 +0000, Jeff wrote: > > "Hachiroku ハチロク" <Trueno(a)AE86.gts> wrote in message > news:go2Kh.10814$S06.10006(a)trndny08... >> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 01:58:14 +0000, C. E. White wrote: > <...> > >> And that also explains why a Camry with a "J" VIN had 75% Domestic >> content (in 2005) > > Also, some parts probably came from the US. Toyota actually imports > catalytic convertors into Japan. > > While cats are expensive, that probably doesn't explain the 75% figure, > though. > > Jeff Well, like CE said, the sticker covers the entire car line, not the car itself. That's why I was wondering why a Camry with a "J" VIN had the same content as one made in KY...
From: C. E. White on 15 Mar 2007 11:11 "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno(a)AE86.gts> wrote in message news:l4dKh.7756$vV3.160(a)trndny09... > Well, like CE said, the sticker covers the entire car line, not the > car > itself. That's why I was wondering why a Camry with a "J" VIN had > the same > content as one made in KY... Well after looking at the domestic content labels, I have pretty much written them off as useless at best and at worst deliberately misleading. IF you actually cared about where the money was going for the car you are buying, the information presented is not nearly detailed enough. The Camry is a good example. If you were nationalistic and wanted to make sure your Camry had the highest possible US content, the labels don't tell you enough. The labels for all Camrys list exactly the same domestic content (however they do list the country of origin for the engine and transmission, and the final assembly location). With modern computers and inventory control, it would not be all that hard to print the actual domestic content on the window sticker for the car you are considering. However, based on the NHTSA link previously posted, it seems most Americans don't even know the labels exist, and even fewer actually care. And in some cases, I think the labels hurt the sale of "domestic" vehicles since some people apparently would refer their car to be assembled in Japan by Japanese workers. I guess they like the idea of being an economic colony of Japan. I guess I am lucky to have at least part of my income provided by providing raw materials / food. I am sure the Japanese will need to continue to import soybeans. Ed
From: Mike Hunter on 15 Mar 2007 11:22 The NAP content label is indeed misleading and you are correct, it applies to the vehicle line. If a manufacture buys steel in the US and stamps parts in the US from that steel, it counts as US content as well as NAP. If the steel is imported and the stamping is done in Canada, or the US, it counts as NAP but those parts are NOT US content for the VIN designation of the number '1,' by the US Department of Commerce The stamped part, or the steel, or the component parts, of any part that is ONLY finally assembled in the US or Canada from imported components it counted on the NAP label but does NOT count as US content. If the US content of base materials, steel, plastics, rubber, glass, engineering , R&D, etc., fall below 70% the VIN assigned is a '4,' if it falls below 40% the VIN assigned is a '5' For example the Accord get a '1' and the Camry a '4.' Ford is going to have to start building the Fusion in a second plant. The Hermosa plant does not have the build capacity.to meet the current growth in demand mike "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message news:WK1Kh.12819$tD2.11612(a)newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... >I am curious about the domestic content of various cars, so I stopped by a >couple of car dealers last night to check out the domestic content labels. >In 35 years of car buying, I never recall seeing one. But, sure enough, >they were on most cars and light trucks on the lots. I wonder where they go >when I test drive a car? Apparently they are not required on heavy duty >trucks (like an F250). > > The labels list the percentage of domestic content for a "Car Line" not > for the particular car you are looking at. And it is not even for the cars > from a particular plant. It is domestic content of the theoretical volume > weighted average member of a "Car Line." This means that no matter what > Camry you look at, no matter where it was actually built, the domestic > content label is going to show the same percentage of domestic content. > This is why Camrys built in Japan are still labeled as having 80% domestic > content. The particular Camry built in Japan might have 0% domestic > content, but when all Camrys (and Solaras) sold in the US are averaged > together, the average domestic content is 80%. Likewise, Ford Mustangs all > are claimed to have a 70% domestic content whether they are a V-6 manual, > or a V-8 automatic. Clearly a V-6 Automatic Mustang, which has a German > engine and a French transmission, has a much lower domestic content than a > V-8 Automatic Mustang, which has US built engines and transmissions. Still > they both have the same domestic content percentage shown on the label. > The labels do show the country of origin for engines and transmissions and > the country of assembly. I have no idea how they account for changes in > demand for different version or when Toyota imports additional Camrys to > meet higher than expected demand. I suppose the labels are based on > projected volumes. I do not know if they are updated if reality doesn't > conform to the projections. > > I think calling items produced in the US or Canada as "domestic" is not > sensible since NAFTA was implemented. Why is Mexico treated differently > than Canada? Aren't we all one big happy free trade area? I also think it > is not clear how a particular component is counted as "domestic." To be > counted as a "domestic fender" does the steel have to come from the US or > Canada or merely be stamped out in the US or Canada? Does an electronic > component have to have components sourced in the US or Canada, or just > have the final assembly done in the US or Canada? > > My opinion is that he Domestic Content Labels are not particularly useful, > and that they may actually be misleading. They do not reflect the domestic > content of the actual car you are looking at, but rather they are the > average domestic content for cars in that particular car line. Regardless > of their usefulness, here is what the labels claim for various car lines: > > Toyota 4Runner - 0% > Toyota Siena - 80% > Toyota Highlander - 5% > Toyota Prius - 0% > Toyota Matrix - 70% > Toyota Corolla - 60% > Toyota Tacoma - 65% > Toyota Avalon - 75% > Toyota Camry / Solara - 80% > Scion xA, xB, xC - 0% > Toyota Yaris - 0% > Toyota Tundra (new version) - 75% > Toyota RAV4 - 0% > Ford Ranger - 80% > Ford F150 - 90% > Ford Mustang - 70% > Ford Escape - 2007 - 80%, 2008 - 65% > Ford Edge / Lincoln MXK - 95% > Ford Five Hundred / Mercury Montego - 80% > Ford Freestyle - 85% > Ford Explorer / Mercury Mountaineer - 80% > Ford Fusion / Mercury Milan / Lincoln MKZ - 50% > Ford Crown Victoria / Mercury Grand Marquis / Lincoln Town Car - 90% > > One thing I found interesting was the sparce number of Ford Fusions on the > lots at Ford dealers. I stopped at two Ford dealers and there was a total > of 6 Fusions on the lots. I assume this means they are selling really > well. > > Ed > > >
From: Jeff on 15 Mar 2007 12:23
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message news:EOednWJKy5R0-WTYnZ2dnUVZ_tqnnZ2d(a)ptd.net... > The NAP content label is indeed misleading and you are correct, it applies > to the vehicle line. If a manufacture buys steel in the US and stamps > parts in the US from that steel, it counts as US content as well as NAP. > If the steel is imported and the stamping is done in Canada, or the US, it > counts as NAP but those parts are NOT US content for the VIN designation > of the number '1,' by the US Department of Commerce Evidence please. The VIN designation is required by the Deparment of Transportation, not the Department of Commerce. The Department of Transportation (through the National Traffic Highway Safety Administration) has contracted with the Society of Automotive Engineers to assign the WMI (the first three characters of the VIN). Here is a link to the US code that is involved: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/49cfr565_05.html > The stamped part, or the steel, or the component parts, of any part that > is ONLY finally assembled in the US or Canada from imported components it > counted on the NAP label but does NOT count as US content. If the US > content of base materials, steel, plastics, rubber, glass, engineering , > R&D, etc., fall below 70% the VIN assigned is a '4,' if it falls below 40% > the VIN assigned is a '5' > > For example the Accord get a '1' and the Camry a '4.' Exactly. Honda was assigned a WMI (world manufactuer identifier) beginning with '1,' which indicates that it was made in the US, and Toyota begins with a '4', which indicates it was made in the US. The first digit of the VIN indicates nothing else. If I am incorrect, you can prove it by posting the URL that demonstrates this. > Ford is going to have to start building the Fusion in a second plant. The > Hermosa plant does not have the build capacity.to meet the current growth > in demand Excellent. Hopefully this will help Ford come out of their financial mess. I hope they can figure out how to build good cars that people want. Jeff > mike > > > "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message > news:WK1Kh.12819$tD2.11612(a)newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>I am curious about the domestic content of various cars, so I stopped by a >>couple of car dealers last night to check out the domestic content labels. >>In 35 years of car buying, I never recall seeing one. But, sure enough, >>they were on most cars and light trucks on the lots. I wonder where they >>go when I test drive a car? Apparently they are not required on heavy duty >>trucks (like an F250). >> >> The labels list the percentage of domestic content for a "Car Line" not >> for the particular car you are looking at. And it is not even for the >> cars from a particular plant. It is domestic content of the theoretical >> volume weighted average member of a "Car Line." This means that no matter >> what Camry you look at, no matter where it was actually built, the >> domestic content label is going to show the same percentage of domestic >> content. This is why Camrys built in Japan are still labeled as having >> 80% domestic content. The particular Camry built in Japan might have 0% >> domestic content, but when all Camrys (and Solaras) sold in the US are >> averaged together, the average domestic content is 80%. Likewise, Ford >> Mustangs all are claimed to have a 70% domestic content whether they are >> a V-6 manual, or a V-8 automatic. Clearly a V-6 Automatic Mustang, which >> has a German engine and a French transmission, has a much lower domestic >> content than a V-8 Automatic Mustang, which has US built engines and >> transmissions. Still they both have the same domestic content percentage >> shown on the label. The labels do show the country of origin for engines >> and transmissions and the country of assembly. I have no idea how they >> account for changes in demand for different version or when Toyota >> imports additional Camrys to meet higher than expected demand. I suppose >> the labels are based on projected volumes. I do not know if they are >> updated if reality doesn't conform to the projections. >> >> I think calling items produced in the US or Canada as "domestic" is not >> sensible since NAFTA was implemented. Why is Mexico treated differently >> than Canada? Aren't we all one big happy free trade area? I also think it >> is not clear how a particular component is counted as "domestic." To be >> counted as a "domestic fender" does the steel have to come from the US or >> Canada or merely be stamped out in the US or Canada? Does an electronic >> component have to have components sourced in the US or Canada, or just >> have the final assembly done in the US or Canada? >> >> My opinion is that he Domestic Content Labels are not particularly >> useful, and that they may actually be misleading. They do not reflect the >> domestic content of the actual car you are looking at, but rather they >> are the average domestic content for cars in that particular car line. >> Regardless of their usefulness, here is what the labels claim for various >> car lines: >> >> Toyota 4Runner - 0% >> Toyota Siena - 80% >> Toyota Highlander - 5% >> Toyota Prius - 0% >> Toyota Matrix - 70% >> Toyota Corolla - 60% >> Toyota Tacoma - 65% >> Toyota Avalon - 75% >> Toyota Camry / Solara - 80% >> Scion xA, xB, xC - 0% >> Toyota Yaris - 0% >> Toyota Tundra (new version) - 75% >> Toyota RAV4 - 0% >> Ford Ranger - 80% >> Ford F150 - 90% >> Ford Mustang - 70% >> Ford Escape - 2007 - 80%, 2008 - 65% >> Ford Edge / Lincoln MXK - 95% >> Ford Five Hundred / Mercury Montego - 80% >> Ford Freestyle - 85% >> Ford Explorer / Mercury Mountaineer - 80% >> Ford Fusion / Mercury Milan / Lincoln MKZ - 50% >> Ford Crown Victoria / Mercury Grand Marquis / Lincoln Town Car - 90% >> >> One thing I found interesting was the sparce number of Ford Fusions on >> the lots at Ford dealers. I stopped at two Ford dealers and there was a >> total of 6 Fusions on the lots. I assume this means they are selling >> really well. >> >> Ed >> >> >> > > |