GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL
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From: JoeSpareBedroom on 23 Mar 2007 10:53 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message news:4603e7eb$1(a)kcnews01... > > "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:KlRMh.5493$ya1.3919(a)news02.roc.ny... > >> I'm not making ANYTHING up. Pistons at this factory, pistons at that >> factory. Engine blocks here, engine blocks there. > > I said you were making things up ecasue you said " the exact same engine > parts." They are not the exact same engine parts. > > Chrysler doesn't make pistons at all. They buy them, jsut like Ford, GM, > and Toyota (althoguh Toyota probably owns 51% of the company making their > pistons). > > Ed > >> It may help for you to eliminate faith from your thinking on these >> issues. OK. Let's assume the whole machining question is moot for the moment, and focus on the symptoms I've mentioned in other messages: Please explain: 1982 Tercel: Uses 1/2 quart of oil in 3 years. 1988 Corolla wagon (4 cyl): Uses a quart in 5-6 years. 1996 Camry wagon (6 cyl): Uses 1/2 quart in 10 years. 2002 Tacoma (6 cyl): Uses *ZERO* oil in 4.5 years. I've still got the unopened container of oil I bought when the truck was new. Contrast: 1992 Taurus (6 cyl): Used a quart every 2-3 months, from the time the car was new until I got rid of it in 2002. The exhaust made it clear what was happening.
From: C. E. White on 23 Mar 2007 11:05 "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ARRMh.5333$B25.1851(a)news01.roc.ny... > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message > news:4603e7eb$1(a)kcnews01... >> >> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:KlRMh.5493$ya1.3919(a)news02.roc.ny... >> >>> I'm not making ANYTHING up. Pistons at this factory, pistons at >>> that factory. Engine blocks here, engine blocks there. >> >> I said you were making things up ecasue you said " the exact same >> engine parts." They are not the exact same engine parts. >> >> Chrysler doesn't make pistons at all. They buy them, jsut like >> Ford, GM, and Toyota (althoguh Toyota probably owns 51% of the >> company making their pistons). >> >> Ed >> >>> It may help for you to eliminate faith from your thinking on these >>> issues. > > > OK. Let's assume the whole machining question is moot for the > moment, and focus on the symptoms I've mentioned in other messages: > > Please explain: > > 1982 Tercel: Uses 1/2 quart of oil in 3 years. > 1988 Corolla wagon (4 cyl): Uses a quart in 5-6 years. > 1996 Camry wagon (6 cyl): Uses 1/2 quart in 10 years. > 2002 Tacoma (6 cyl): Uses *ZERO* oil in 4.5 years. I've still got > the unopened container of oil I bought when the truck was new. > > Contrast: > 1992 Taurus (6 cyl): Used a quart every 2-3 months, from the time > the car was new until I got rid of it in 2002. The exhaust made it > clear what was happening. I haven't had a car that needed oil added between changes in 35 years that wasn't made in England. How many miles did you drive in 2-3 months? I drive somewhere around 2000 miles a months, so a quart of oil every 2 to 3 months would be trivial. You need to understand something important -all piston engines consume oil - even precision built, jewel like, made by god, Toyota engines. In fact, I'll wager you that your damn near perfect Toyota engine is probably burning more than a quart of oil between changes, BUT, you say, I never have to add any. So what. All engine also suffer from blow-by to some extent, The stuff that escapes pass the piston rings ends up in the oil. If you have more stuff blowing by the rings that oil escaping past the rings, seals, PCV, etc., you can actually have the oil level increase. We had an old farm tractor that did exactly that. The compression rings were weak, so a lot of stuff blew by them. So, it is entirely possible, that the Taurus you hate actually used less oil than the Toyota you love, but also had better seals so less stuff escaped into the oil (but certainly I don't know this). Without careful oil analysis you can't know. I do that I never had to add oil to my old Cressida, but it constantly dripped oil on to the garage floor. It was clearly making up the lost oil somehow. One more thing - if your catalytic converter is working, you aren't going to be able to tell your car is burning minor amounts of oil (minor = 1 quart per 1000 miles) by looking at the tail pipe. Ed
From: JoeSpareBedroom on 23 Mar 2007 11:20 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message news:4603ed39$1(a)kcnews01... > > "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:ARRMh.5333$B25.1851(a)news01.roc.ny... >> "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message >> news:4603e7eb$1(a)kcnews01... >>> >>> "JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> news:KlRMh.5493$ya1.3919(a)news02.roc.ny... >>> >>>> I'm not making ANYTHING up. Pistons at this factory, pistons at that >>>> factory. Engine blocks here, engine blocks there. >>> >>> I said you were making things up ecasue you said " the exact same engine >>> parts." They are not the exact same engine parts. >>> >>> Chrysler doesn't make pistons at all. They buy them, jsut like Ford, GM, >>> and Toyota (althoguh Toyota probably owns 51% of the company making >>> their pistons). >>> >>> Ed >>> >>>> It may help for you to eliminate faith from your thinking on these >>>> issues. >> >> >> OK. Let's assume the whole machining question is moot for the moment, and >> focus on the symptoms I've mentioned in other messages: >> >> Please explain: >> >> 1982 Tercel: Uses 1/2 quart of oil in 3 years. >> 1988 Corolla wagon (4 cyl): Uses a quart in 5-6 years. >> 1996 Camry wagon (6 cyl): Uses 1/2 quart in 10 years. >> 2002 Tacoma (6 cyl): Uses *ZERO* oil in 4.5 years. I've still got the >> unopened container of oil I bought when the truck was new. >> >> Contrast: >> 1992 Taurus (6 cyl): Used a quart every 2-3 months, from the time the car >> was new until I got rid of it in 2002. The exhaust made it clear what was >> happening. > > I haven't had a car that needed oil added between changes in 35 years that > wasn't made in England. How many miles did you drive in 2-3 months? I > drive somewhere around 2000 miles a months, so a quart of oil every 2 to 3 > months would be trivial. > > You need to understand something important -all piston engines consume > oil - even precision built, jewel like, made by god, Toyota engines. In > fact, I'll wager you that your damn near perfect Toyota engine is probably > burning more than a quart of oil between changes, BUT, you say, I never > have to add any. So what. All engine also suffer from blow-by to some > extent, The stuff that escapes pass the piston rings ends up in the oil. > If you have more stuff blowing by the rings that oil escaping past the > rings, seals, PCV, etc., you can actually have the oil level increase. We > had an old farm tractor that did exactly that. The compression rings were > weak, so a lot of stuff blew by them. So, it is entirely possible, that > the Taurus you hate actually used less oil than the Toyota you love, but > also had better seals so less stuff escaped into the oil (but certainly I > don't know this). Without careful oil analysis you can't know. I do that I > never had to add oil to my old Cressida, but it constantly dripped oil on > to the garage floor. It was clearly making up the lost oil somehow. > > One more thing - if your catalytic converter is working, you aren't going > to be able to tell your car is burning minor amounts of oil (minor = 1 > quart per 1000 miles) by looking at the tail pipe. > > Ed Great. Explain the Taurus' fusible link, protected by something akin to $2.00 inline fuse cover like you'd buy at Radio Shack. Mounted low in the engine compartment to be sure it would catch as much road salt and moisture as possible. Explain the other Ford's defective stick shift design, which required dismantling the entire interior of the car (seat, carpets, console) to replace a cheap plastic ring. All intentional. The bottom line here is that like many Americans, you are willing to accept low quality for certain products, but not for others. You're probably know that a cheap bookcase from Staples is not as well made as one from Ethan Allen. But, for many people, cars are part of some sort of bizarre "other way of thinking". You make special exceptions for cars that you'd never make for any other product. You'll rationalize bad quality all day long. It's your right to do so.
From: RCE on 23 Mar 2007 11:24 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message news:4603ed39$1(a)kcnews01... > > You need to understand something important -all piston engines consume > oil - even precision built, jewel like, made by god, Toyota engines. That's what the crosshatched honing of the cylinder walls are for. At a micro level, they are grand canyons that hold oil. The piston rings ride on the minute layer of oil contained in the lines. So, by default, all engines use and "burn" some oil. But, JoeSpareBedroom won't believe this, I am sure. RCE
From: JoeSpareBedroom on 23 Mar 2007 11:25
"RCE" <rce(a)nowhere.com> wrote in message news:SvSdnWMzwcy0bJ7bnZ2dnUVZ_uWlnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > > "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in message > news:4603ed39$1(a)kcnews01... >> > > >> You need to understand something important -all piston engines consume >> oil - even precision built, jewel like, made by god, Toyota engines. > > That's what the crosshatched honing of the cylinder walls are for. At a > micro level, they are grand canyons that hold oil. The piston rings ride > on the minute layer of oil contained in the lines. > > So, by default, all engines use and "burn" some oil. > > But, JoeSpareBedroom won't believe this, I am sure. > > RCE I believe it. But, I don't understand why some cars use quite a bit more than others, and begin to stink like old junkers when they're still relatively new. |