From: Jeff on

"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:2MSdnVT3V4R4j2LYnZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>I know the answer and told you to search the FMC site to find which are 1Z,
>go look, WBMA ;)
>
> I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions. How can it be "they were
> running out of VIN" numbers when VINs change annually? Why are the Nissan
> made in the US a '1' and the Toyotas a 4 and 5 if they "ran out" of '1s'
> yet Toyota was assembling cars in the US long before Nissan?
>
> Again you are confusing the NAP label with US content. Parts assembled in
> Canada do not count as the US content a car line needs to get a '1.' It
> is not 75% it only needs to be 70% NAPs label on my 2007 Mustang listed
> 80% North American Parts, not 65%, in any event ;)
>
> Ford converted the Rouge plant over to FWD, to build the 500. The
> Mustangs, that were formally built there are now built in the Mazda/Ford
> Black Rock MI plant. That is where the Probe was built. The first
> numbers on the '89 Probe was 4ZVFP(model number). The '07 Mustang is
> 1ZVFT(model number).
>
> mike
>
>
> "C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:nYcLh.11062$PL.10946(a)newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
>> news:MtadnWWr8ceaomHYnZ2dnUVZ_silnZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>>>I know! I can't prove it, I didn't bookmark the URL, Search the FMC
>>>site, WBMA ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> mike
>>
>> Well now we are getting somewhere. you don't actually have any proof. You
>> just think there is some proof. You think you remember seeing some proof,
>> but you can't find it, so you are hoping someone can find it for you.
>>
>> To be considered a domestic vehicle, the vehicle must have 75% domestic
>> content. According to the domestic content label, the average Mustang
>> only contains 70% domestic content, but it is assembled in the USA and
>> gets a "1" as the first digit of the VIN. Likewise, the average 2008 Ford
>> Escape only includes 65% domestic content, yet is still gets a "1" as the
>> first digit of the VIN. How do you explain these vehicles that don't seem
>> to fit into your pet theory that the VIN indicates domestic content?
>>
>> Ed

Mike, I found something interesting, thanks to the site Ed was kind enough
to share. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/manufacture/

Now, if I understand your conjecture correctly, a manufacturer may only use
a '1' if there is more than 69% content, a '5' if there is less than 40%
content, and a '4' if there is between 40% and 70% content. If this
conjecture is correct, then a manufacturer must be able to use 3 WMIs (the
first three digits of the VIN) for each type of vehicle. For example, if 1F1
is used for a vehicle with 85% content, then 4F1 and 5F1 must be available
for that manufacturer.

The the WMI for a Mazda truck is 4F2. 5F2 is assigned to CC Manufacturing in
Il.

The WMI for a Mercury MPV is 4M2. 5M2 is assigned to Pitbull Trailer in TN.

The WMI for a Lincoln MPV limo is 5L1. 4L1 is assigned to Innovative
Enterprise in CA. 1L1 is assigned to Ford for an imcomplete Limo. What is
Lincoln supposed to do if their MPV Limo content goes above 40%? I guess it
can't.

The WMI for a Lincoln MPV is 5LM. 4LM is assigned to Capacity of Texas, Inc.
And 1LM is assigned to Laotto Metal Fabricating, IN. Let's hope that Lincoln
never makes an MPV with more than 40%. They won't be able to put a VIN on
it.

The WMI for a Lincoln Truck is 5LT. Lil-Tag-Along uses a WMI of 4LT. And
Leisure Time Products, Inc. uses 1LT. So what happens if Lincoln ever makes
a truck over 40% US Content?

4T1 is assigned to Toyota KY. 5T1 is reserved for Connecticut. 1T1 is
assigned to Travel Equipment Corp. Good thing the Sienna is made with
between 40 and 70% US Content, because if it ever goes out of that range,
Toyota won't be able to get a VIN for it.

5TE is assigned to Toyota CA (it used on the Tacoma). 4TE is assigned to
Currehee Trailes, GA. 1TE is assigned to Coachman Industries in IN. Let's
hope that Toyota never makes an a Tacoma with more than 40% US Content,
because it won't get a VIN.

Think about this one, Mike.

Thanks Ed.

Jeff

From: C. E. White on

"Jeff" <news(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:QUFLh.4382$742.3485(a)trndny07...

> Where does Toyota say "assembled in America, of world source parts?"

Some of the new Tundra ads use that wording.

Ed


From: C. E. White on

"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:CK-dnaUOMuFNvGLYnZ2dnUVZ_oOknZ2d(a)ptd.net...


> However the questions remains to be answered, why are the Nissans and
> Hondas that are actually made in the US of at least 70% US content,
> exhibiting a '1' and the Toyotas a 4 and 5?

As I pointed out at least three times now, there are numerous other
manufacturers that are using "1T" in the first two positions of the WMI -
like THOMAS BUILT BUSES INC., or TEE NEE TRAILERS. It should be obvious,
even to you, that Toyota might be forced into using the 4T or 5T indicators
becasue all the 1T WMI were taken.

According to NHTSA database:
1T1, 1T2, 1T3, 1T4, 1T5, and 1T6 are all assigned to Travel Equipment
Corporation.
1T7 and 1T8 are assigned to Thomas Built Buses Inc.
1T9 is assigned to a large number of trailer manufacturers (additional
digits are used to distingish manufacturers).
1T0 is assigned to Trail-Rite Trailer Manufacturing.
1TA is assigned to Theurer Inc.,
1TB and 1TF are assigned to Transportation Equipment & Services.
1TC, 1TE, 1TJ, and 1TX are assigned to Coachmen Recreational Vehicles
Company.
1TD is assigned to Timpte Incorporated.
1TG is assigned to B H Workman & Sons Inc.
1TH is assigned to Hillsboro Industries Inc.
1TI is not a valid WMI (I is not a valid character for a VIN).
1TK is assigned to Trail King Industries.
1TL is assigned to Go-Tag-A-Long Trailer Manufacturing Inc.,
1TM, and 1TN are assigned to Timpte Beall Incorporated.
1TO is not allowed (the letter O is not a valid character for a VIN).
1TP is assigned to Tennessee Trailers Incorporated.
1TQ is not allowed (the letter Q is not a valid VIN character).
1TR is assigned to Traffic Transport Engineering.
1TS is assigned to Shasta Industries LLC. 1TT is assigned to Transcraft
Corporation.
1TU is assigned to Transportation Manufacturing Corp.
1TV is assigned to Viking Recreational Vehicles LLC.
1TW is assigned to Trophy Homes Inc.
1TY is assigned to Tee Nee Trailer Company.
1TZ is assigned to Trail-R-Craft Incorporated.

So, the reason there are no 1T Toyota VINs is blinding simple if you would
just look - all the 1T WMI are assigned to other manufacturers (mostly
trailer manufacturers). In my mind this lays your last pitiful question to
rest. Can you finally admit were wrong?

> Toyota was assembling cars in the US long before Honda and Nissan.

Wrong again

NUMMI was assembling car in the US staring in 1984. NUMMI is not Toyota,
although they do assemble cars for Toyota.
Toyota did not start assembling cars in the US until 1989.
Honda started assembling Accords in the US in 1982.
Nissan started manufacturing trucks in Tennessee in 1983. Sentras were
assembled in Tennessee in 1985..

So clearly Toyota was not assembling vehicles in the US long before Nissan
or Honda. I suppose you will claim that NUMMI assembled "cars" in the US
before Nissan assembled "cars" in the US, but even then, 1 year is not "long
before." And Honda began assembling Accords in the US in 1982 - before
NUMMI.

So another fact you got wrong.

> Why does Toyota no longer say 'made in America' but 'assembled in
> American, of world source parts' ever since Honda complained to the FTC
> about Toyotas deceptive advertising?

"Assembled in America of World Sourced Parts" is more technically correct.
Some Toyota are truly made in America, some are clearly not and some are in
between. But the same is true of Honda, or Nissan, or Ford, or GM. Mustangs
are a perfect example - V6 engines from Germany, Automatics form the US or
France, Manual Transmission from Mexico, electronics from the Far East -
truly a car "Assembled in America of World Sourced Parts".

Ed


From: Jeff on

"C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:37JLh.11703$PL.2448(a)newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2(a)mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:CK-dnaUOMuFNvGLYnZ2dnUVZ_oOknZ2d(a)ptd.net...
>
>
>> However the questions remains to be answered, why are the Nissans and
>> Hondas that are actually made in the US of at least 70% US content,
>> exhibiting a '1' and the Toyotas a 4 and 5?
>
> As I pointed out at least three times now, there are numerous other
> manufacturers that are using "1T" in the first two positions of the WMI -
> like THOMAS BUILT BUSES INC., or TEE NEE TRAILERS. It should be obvious,
> even to you, that Toyota might be forced into using the 4T or 5T
> indicators becasue all the 1T WMI were taken.
>
> According to NHTSA database:
> 1T1, 1T2, 1T3, 1T4, 1T5, and 1T6 are all assigned to Travel Equipment
> Corporation.
> 1T7 and 1T8 are assigned to Thomas Built Buses Inc.
> 1T9 is assigned to a large number of trailer manufacturers (additional
> digits are used to distingish manufacturers).
> 1T0 is assigned to Trail-Rite Trailer Manufacturing.
> 1TA is assigned to Theurer Inc.,
> 1TB and 1TF are assigned to Transportation Equipment & Services.
> 1TC, 1TE, 1TJ, and 1TX are assigned to Coachmen Recreational Vehicles
> Company.
> 1TD is assigned to Timpte Incorporated.
> 1TG is assigned to B H Workman & Sons Inc.
> 1TH is assigned to Hillsboro Industries Inc.
> 1TI is not a valid WMI (I is not a valid character for a VIN).
> 1TK is assigned to Trail King Industries.
> 1TL is assigned to Go-Tag-A-Long Trailer Manufacturing Inc.,
> 1TM, and 1TN are assigned to Timpte Beall Incorporated.
> 1TO is not allowed (the letter O is not a valid character for a VIN).
> 1TP is assigned to Tennessee Trailers Incorporated.
> 1TQ is not allowed (the letter Q is not a valid VIN character).
> 1TR is assigned to Traffic Transport Engineering.
> 1TS is assigned to Shasta Industries LLC. 1TT is assigned to Transcraft
> Corporation.
> 1TU is assigned to Transportation Manufacturing Corp.
> 1TV is assigned to Viking Recreational Vehicles LLC.
> 1TW is assigned to Trophy Homes Inc.
> 1TY is assigned to Tee Nee Trailer Company.
> 1TZ is assigned to Trail-R-Craft Incorporated.
>
> So, the reason there are no 1T Toyota VINs is blinding simple if you would
> just look - all the 1T WMI are assigned to other manufacturers (mostly
> trailer manufacturers). In my mind this lays your last pitiful question to
> rest. Can you finally admit were wrong?

Do you think he can?


>> Toyota was assembling cars in the US long before Honda and Nissan.
>
> Wrong again
>
> NUMMI was assembling car in the US staring in 1984. NUMMI is not Toyota,
> although they do assemble cars for Toyota.
> Toyota did not start assembling cars in the US until 1989.
> Honda started assembling Accords in the US in 1982.
> Nissan started manufacturing trucks in Tennessee in 1983. Sentras were
> assembled in Tennessee in 1985..
>
> So clearly Toyota was not assembling vehicles in the US long before Nissan
> or Honda. I suppose you will claim that NUMMI assembled "cars" in the US
> before Nissan assembled "cars" in the US, but even then, 1 year is not
> "long before." And Honda began assembling Accords in the US in 1982 -
> before NUMMI.
>
> So another fact you got wrong.

Do I see a trend here? To his credit, he did admit he got his facts wrong
about where some Fords were assembled.

>> Why does Toyota no longer say 'made in America' but 'assembled in
>> American, of world source parts' ever since Honda complained to the FTC
>> about Toyotas deceptive advertising?
>
> "Assembled in America of World Sourced Parts" is more technically
> correct. Some Toyota are truly made in America, some are clearly not and
> some are in between. But the same is true of Honda, or Nissan, or Ford, or
> GM. Mustangs are a perfect example - V6 engines from Germany, Automatics
> form the US or France, Manual Transmission from Mexico, electronics from
> the Far East - truly a car "Assembled in America of World Sourced Parts".

According to the FTC, if a car has 75% domestic parts and is assembled in
the US, it is "Made in USA."
http://www.ftc.gov/os/1997/05/madeinus.pdf, page 77.


> Ed
>


From: Built_Well on
Please pardon my identical double posting in this thread. I
actually
posted that last messge about 1 or 2 days ago, using the Tera News
server.
But that news server has not been working right lately. Tera News
posted
that message 2 days after I wrote it.

Nice, detailed work, Ed.