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From: Jeff Strickland on 11 Feb 2010 12:04

"Austin Toyota Club" <Austin Texas> wrote in message
news:Z62dnRpLHd0u6-7WnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d(a)posted.grandecom...
>I would like to try this, too.
>
> "Crazy Lary" <email(a)noemail.com> wrote in message
> news:FbidnRR9V_SFPEPUnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d(a)posted.grandecom...
>>I want to toss the power steering. At least to test it. Anyone know where
>>the fuse is located?
>> It's a 2009 Toyota Corolla.
>>
>> thank you,
>>
>> Crazy Larry
>

My experience, limited as it is, is that you don't want to do this. I find
that driving a power steering-equiped car without the benefit of the power
makes the steering pretty much unbearable at speeds where the power is
actually needed.

You don't need power steering to make a lane change, or even to navigate a
mountain road, because the steering input is very minor and generally pretty
slow. I had an engine problem once AND was on a very tight budget so calling
the tow truck to the top of the hill was out of the question. I put the car
into N (manual shift) and coasted 7 miles down the grade to the parking lot
at the bottom. The steering was heavy, but manageable on the road, but I
would not want to have wanted the power assist to be gone on purpose or for
any extended length of time. I could drive the car okay, but my wife would
have had her hands full. Just a thought ...

Where power steering is needed is in city traffic and parking lots. If you
can't make wide changes in direction quickly, then you're not gonna be very
happy for very long.






From: Ray O on 11 Feb 2010 11:44

"Hachiroku" <Trueno(a)e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:hl17ge$jdt$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:54:16 -0600, Ray O wrote:
>
>> "Austin Toyota Club" <Austin Texas> wrote in message
>> news:Z62dnRpLHd0u6-7WnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d(a)posted.grandecom...
>>>I would like to try this, too.
>>>
>>> "Crazy Lary" <email(a)noemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:FbidnRR9V_SFPEPUnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d(a)posted.grandecom...
>>>>I want to toss the power steering. At least to test it. Anyone know
>>>>where the fuse is located?
>>>> It's a 2009 Toyota Corolla.
>>>>
>>>> thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Crazy Larry
>>>
>> I doubt if the PS has a fuse, more likely a self-resetting circuit
>> breaker. If there is a fuse or circuit breaker, it will be in one of the
>> fuse boxes, more likely the one under the hood. There is probably a
>> simple way to temporarily disable the electronic power steering, but I
>> think I'll let owners figure it out themselves rather than give
>> instructions on how to disable what lawyers, safety advocates,
>> politicians, people with limited automotive knowledge, and people with
>> limited driving skills consider a safety feature.
>
> Ray...
>
> The guy *DOES* call himself "Crazy Larry"...
>

LOL! True!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: Ray O on 11 Feb 2010 12:14

"C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hl19j0$a23$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
> news:hl0652$kug$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Austin Toyota Club" <Austin Texas> wrote in message
>> news:Z62dnRpLHd0u6-7WnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d(a)posted.grandecom...
>>>I would like to try this, too.
>>>
>>> "Crazy Lary" <email(a)noemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:FbidnRR9V_SFPEPUnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d(a)posted.grandecom...
>>>>I want to toss the power steering. At least to test it. Anyone know
>>>>where the fuse is located?
>>>> It's a 2009 Toyota Corolla.
>>>>
>>>> thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Crazy Larry
>>>
>> I doubt if the PS has a fuse, more likely a self-resetting circuit
>> breaker. If there is a fuse or circuit breaker, it will be in one of the
>> fuse boxes, more likely the one under the hood. There is probably a
>> simple way to temporarily disable the electronic power steering, but I
>> think I'll let owners figure it out themselves rather than give
>> instructions on how to disable what lawyers, safety advocates,
>> politicians, people with limited automotive knowledge, and people with
>> limited driving skills consider a safety feature.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>
> I am curious about the type of electric power sterring Toyota is using...
>
> I had a 2003 Sturn Vue that used an electric motor to supply steering
> assistance. I thought they all worked like this. However, on Car Talk the
> other day they were mentioned a system that used an electriclly run
> hydraulic pump to supply high pressure oil to provide steering asist. This
> sounded like a system that would use a convention hydralically assisted
> rack and the only difference was how the hydraulic pressure was supplied.
> Seemed like a bad idea, but they were talkinig about it...
>
> Ed
>
I'm not sure how the electric power steering works, but I am pretty sure
that it does not use a pump. My understanding is that the electronic PS
uses some kind of motor or servo, probably similar to what your Vue had.

The EPS is used on Toyota's hybrid vehicles because with an engine-driven
pump, assist would be lost when the motor shuts down. The disadvantage to
using an electrically driven pump is that it would need to run whenever the
vehicle is being driven, which would quickly drain the traction battery, or
it would need some kind of accumulator tank, which would add complexity.

A motor or servo-driven assist would be lighter than a hydraulic system and
theoretically easier.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: Jeff Strickland on 11 Feb 2010 12:49

"C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hl19j0$a23$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
> news:hl0652$kug$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Austin Toyota Club" <Austin Texas> wrote in message
>> news:Z62dnRpLHd0u6-7WnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d(a)posted.grandecom...
>>>I would like to try this, too.
>>>
>>> "Crazy Lary" <email(a)noemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:FbidnRR9V_SFPEPUnZ2dnUVZ_hidnZ2d(a)posted.grandecom...
>>>>I want to toss the power steering. At least to test it. Anyone know
>>>>where the fuse is located?
>>>> It's a 2009 Toyota Corolla.
>>>>
>>>> thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Crazy Larry
>>>
>> I doubt if the PS has a fuse, more likely a self-resetting circuit
>> breaker. If there is a fuse or circuit breaker, it will be in one of the
>> fuse boxes, more likely the one under the hood. There is probably a
>> simple way to temporarily disable the electronic power steering, but I
>> think I'll let owners figure it out themselves rather than give
>> instructions on how to disable what lawyers, safety advocates,
>> politicians, people with limited automotive knowledge, and people with
>> limited driving skills consider a safety feature.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>
> I am curious about the type of electric power sterring Toyota is using...
>
> I had a 2003 Sturn Vue that used an electric motor to supply steering
> assistance. I thought they all worked like this. However, on Car Talk the
> other day they were mentioned a system that used an electriclly run
> hydraulic pump to supply high pressure oil to provide steering asist. This
> sounded like a system that would use a convention hydralically assisted
> rack and the only difference was how the hydraulic pressure was supplied.
> Seemed like a bad idea, but they were talkinig about it...
>


The engine-driven hydraulics are a constant drain on the engine, and
therefore use more fuel. The electrically driven hydraulics do not drain
power from the engine, therefore use less fuel.

The electric assist, as I understand it, is a motor -- sort of like a
starter motor -- that drives the hydraulic assist. The idea is that when
steering input is sensed, the motor kicks into action to provide the
hydraulics needed, then shuts off. The electricity to drive the motor puts a
drain on the engine output, but the drain is transitory instead of constant,
so the end effect is that less power from the engine is used to provide
electric power for the steering than the conventional method of powering the
steering.

If the car is moving at speed and a simple lane change is called out by the
driver, then the power assist would not be activated, therefore no effort
from the engine would be expended as it is in the old system of pumping the
fluid by way of belts on the crankshaft. An added benefit could be that the
space needed for the belt-driven pump could be used in other ways and the
electricly driven pump could be put into an otherwise unused space.

I don't recall, exactly, but I think the complaints on the electric steering
is that there is a lag period between the steering input and the application
of hydraulic pressure to assist the steering. If this is true, then the only
thing that can be accomplished by removing the fuse for the electric motor
is to dramatically increase the lag time. If lag time is the problem that
people have, then what might happen is, the driver muscles the car into a
right-hand turn and suddenly the power assist kicks in and changes the level
of effort needed, and this makes the car turn more sharply than one might
otherwise wish it to turn. Have you ever put effort into moving a stuck
object, and suddenly the object was freed and moved more than you wanted it
to? This is a complaint of electric assisted steering.







From: C. E. White on 11 Feb 2010 12:48

"Ray O" <rokigawa(a)NOSPAMtristarassociates.com> wrote in message
news:hl1f39$sj3$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>> I am curious about the type of electric power sterring Toyota is
>> using...
>>
>> I had a 2003 Sturn Vue that used an electric motor to supply
>> steering assistance. I thought they all worked like this. However,
>> on Car Talk the other day they were mentioned a system that used an
>> electriclly run hydraulic pump to supply high pressure oil to
>> provide steering asist. This sounded like a system that would use a
>> convention hydralically assisted rack and the only difference was
>> how the hydraulic pressure was supplied. Seemed like a bad idea,
>> but they were talkinig about it...
>>
>> Ed
>>
> I'm not sure how the electric power steering works, but I am pretty
> sure that it does not use a pump. My understanding is that the
> electronic PS uses some kind of motor or servo, probably similar to
> what your Vue had.
>
> The EPS is used on Toyota's hybrid vehicles because with an
> engine-driven pump, assist would be lost when the motor shuts down.
> The disadvantage to using an electrically driven pump is that it
> would need to run whenever the vehicle is being driven, which would
> quickly drain the traction battery, or it would need some kind of
> accumulator tank, which would add complexity.
>
> A motor or servo-driven assist would be lighter than a hydraulic
> system and theoretically easier.

I went back and listend to the car talk segment where the Car Talk
guys started talking about the electric power sterring
(http://www.cartalk.com/piplayer/cartalkplayer.html?play=03smil.xml) .
It turns out the car was a Chevrolet Equinox. This thing is jsut a
later Vue. I checked and the 4 cylinder model has electric power
steering just like the Vue I owned (i.e. - a servo motor and no
electrically driven hydraulic pump - ). The 6 cylinder model get a
conventional hydraulic system.....

Ed


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