From: dr_jeff on
Al Falfa wrote:
> "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D1750E6FA99tegger(a)
>> john <johngdole(a)> wrote in
>> news:099eb70a-19f1-46de-b6d5-2c63c0d3642d(a)
>>> I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
>>> and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
>> You're aware that Ford has admitted to having the exact same problem with
>> its hybrids?
> Does Ford still license their hybrid technology from Toyota?

Ford cross-licensed its technology with Toyota. Ford got a lot of its
technology from Volvo. When Ford lawyers looked at the patents, they saw
that their technology was similar, so they had to cross-license the
patents, with Toyota get access to some of Ford's other technology.

From: dr_jeff on
The Tree wrote:
> In article
> <c3f7f08e-6636-40d3-955c-6683699a78de(a)>,
> Neo <residualselfimage1999(a)> wrote:
>> On Feb 6, 12:20 am, john <johngd...(a)> wrote:
>>> I don't know why some dealers like to BS like this: faults are normal
>>> and "within spec", so "get used to it" !!!
>>> Bart has taken her Prius into the dealer twice. "They've said they
>>> can't find anything and they can't duplicate it," she said. "You have
>>> to hit it just so."
>> It is the owner's responsiblity to define the exact
>> conditions when the problem occurs - the
>> problem must be repeatable if the cause and
>> solution is to be determine. You have the
>> same problem when you go to the doctor
>> - if the doctor can't find a repeatably
>> measurable problem with you - he's going to
>> assume you are a hypochondriac.
>> you need to have all your ducks in a
>> row if you expect to make any progress.
>>> One owner from Commerce Township told the National Highway Traffic
>>> Safety Administration that he or she could reproduce a lurching in a
>>> Prius every time a certain pothole was hit.
>>> The Prius owner said a Toyota dealer had responded the car was "within
>>> specifications ... and we just have to get used to it."
>> As with any car with Electronic Stablity Control, when
>> the car hits a pothole at high speed the computer sensors will
>> sense that the tire has momentarily loss traction in that wheel
>> and which would mean that hydraulic brakes would be momentarily
>> useless in that particular wheel. In order for the car not to spin
>> out of control while it is going in a straight line, the ESC would
>> try to adjust the speed on the other wheel on that same axle
>> so both wheels on that axle are going at the same speed.
>> However, this situation should not cause the car to
>> accelerate the throttle or lose braking power. At low speeds , when
>> the tire loses traction - a hybrid should shuts down the electric
>> motor to prevent the electric motor from burning out. When a tire
>> loses
>> traction at high speed, if anti lock brakes were applied on a
>> conventional car, the computer would automatically pump/pulse
>> the hydraulic brakes at regular interval - all the driver needs
>> to do is keep pressing the brake pedal and the comptuer
>> does the rest. To increase braking response time, Toyota
>> can reprogram the brakes to have shorter the time delay
>> between pulsing the hydraulic brakes. The other possible
>> change that I've read about is shortening of the time delay
>> from switching over from the regenerative brakes to hydraulic
>> braking system during braking operations - when an emergency
>> stopping situation is sensed. I drove a 2006 and a 2008
>> Prius rental from Enterprise for a combination of over
>> 1200 miles in 2008 but never noticed any braking problems,
>> sudden acceleration problems or any operational problems
>> at all while I was behind the wheel. So I was very surprised
>> to read about this problem last year. I suspect that this is
>> not so much a problem with Toyota but with the
>> technology they've used -and while some people are
>> frustrated and upset with Toyota - some of the racist
>> anti-japanese comment's I've seen on some of the newslink
>> are downright reprehensible and ugly.
> You hit the nail on the head.
> Toyota vehicles have become too sophisticated for drivers. They have
> not a clue as to the innovative features on their new car. For those,
> we must have a model T to drive, with air conditioning.

We have barely a clue how the usenet groups work, but, we still manage
to use it. I understand most of ideas around how the software works on
my computer (it's an Apple, so it works well), but, I don't need to
understand the details.

Rather than expect the user to learn how everything works on a car, the
car makers need to make it so that the cars work in an intuitive way so
that users can make intelligent decisions about using the car.