From: Ray O on

"E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)msn.com> wrote in message
news:C55DADDA.F0B%epmeyer50(a)msn.com...
>
> On 12/4/08 12:32 PM, in article
> b98gj45933dq7unansu3dlmt3ng7ao9c8m(a)4ax.com,
> "Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted(a)comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:10:30 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ray O wrote:
>>>> "SMS" <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:qkzZk.5873$pr6.3308(a)flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>> SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> A lot more engines are destroyed by a loss of coolant than "worn
>>>>>>> out"
>>>>>>> oil. My nephew destroyed a three year old BMW X5 by not knowing or
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> noticing the temperature gauge, after the water pump started
>>>>>>> leaking.
>>>>>> This is unfortunately a known issue on these cars. But in Driver's
>>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>> didn't your nephew get taught to run his eyes across the gauges every
>>>>>> couple minutes and make sure everything was okay? You gotta watch
>>>>>> them.
>>>>> There is no more driver's ed in schools.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Our local high school still offers driver's ed.
>>>
>>> Wow, where's that?
>>>
>>> When I think back to drivers ed in high school, where we'd go four to a
>>> car on the regular roads, with two students in the back seat, while
>>> another student drove, and the instructor was riding shotgun, I can just
>>> imagine the screams of horror by parents if this were to happen today.
>>
>> As far as I know driver's ed is still a HS graduation requirement in
>> Illinois.
>
> When did they start doing that? It certainly was not a graduation
> requirement in Illinois when I went to high school there. It was offered
> in
> most schools, but only as an extra cost after school activity.
>

Driver's ed was not a HS graduation requirement when I went to HS in IL
either, but it was for my 3 youngest so the change was put in place some
time after the 1970's.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


From: Brent on
On 2008-12-04, Steve <no(a)spam.thanks> wrote:
> Brent wrote:
>> On 2008-12-04, Steve <no(a)spam.thanks> wrote:
>>> Brent wrote:
>>>
>>>> with computer controls it would be entirely software to shut down the
>>>> car now.
>>> And the first time someone gets killed because he didn't have the choice
>>> of sacrificing his engine to get to a safe spot....
>>
>> I wasn't implying a hard cut off, 'now' meant in the present day.
>>
>
> Yes... but does it make a difference? If the computer shuts the car off
> 'now' or 'in 30 seconds,' its still out of the driver's control. I know
> you mentioned an override switch, but I can still see the lawsuits
> flying. "I got all scared when the warning went off, I couldn't find the
> switch, so I looked around for it and hit a guardrail while I was
> looking down, and then a truck hit me, my passenger was killed and I'm
> paralyzed. The carmaker owes me 300 million dollars."

What do these idiots do when the ignition module cuts out?

Or better yet, when the engine ultimately siezes up from overheating?


From: Brent on
On 2008-12-04, Steve <no(a)spam.thanks> wrote:

> And the fact that basic driver's education is not offered in schools
> anymore in many states (I'll vouch for Texas, we've already heard from
> NJ and CA) is further evidence that "society" tolerates really lousy
> drivers on the roads.

tolerates? I say encourages.


From: Vic Smith on
On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:55:07 GMT, "E. Meyer" <epmeyer50(a)msn.com>
wrote:


>> As far as I know driver's ed is still a HS graduation requirement in
>> Illinois.
>
>When did they start doing that? It certainly was not a graduation
>requirement in Illinois when I went to high school there. It was offered in
>most schools, but only as an extra cost after school activity.
>
Don't know when they started.
I recall they were permitted at 15 - at school - got initial
instruction at school, and had to spend some hours driving with a
licensed driver - it was sometimes me, sometimes my wife - then
did the test at school when they were 16.
They just picked up the license at the DMV.
DMV randomly tests some dates - my son caught that so was tested
twice.
They didn't even offer it when I was in school.
My last two graduated in 2002 and 2003.
It was required. Just like the Constitution test.

--Vic
From: Steve on
Brent wrote:
> On 2008-12-04, Steve <no(a)spam.thanks> wrote:
>> Brent wrote:
>>> On 2008-12-04, Steve <no(a)spam.thanks> wrote:
>>>> Brent wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> with computer controls it would be entirely software to shut down the
>>>>> car now.
>>>> And the first time someone gets killed because he didn't have the choice
>>>> of sacrificing his engine to get to a safe spot....
>>> I wasn't implying a hard cut off, 'now' meant in the present day.
>>>
>> Yes... but does it make a difference? If the computer shuts the car off
>> 'now' or 'in 30 seconds,' its still out of the driver's control. I know
>> you mentioned an override switch, but I can still see the lawsuits
>> flying. "I got all scared when the warning went off, I couldn't find the
>> switch, so I looked around for it and hit a guardrail while I was
>> looking down, and then a truck hit me, my passenger was killed and I'm
>> paralyzed. The carmaker owes me 300 million dollars."
>
> What do these idiots do when the ignition module cuts out?
>
> Or better yet, when the engine ultimately siezes up from overheating?
>
>

Brent, you're making sense. Stop it. Now think like a lawyer:

Those incidents you mentioned are "acts of God" and you can't win a
lawsuit based on them.

But if the computer SHUTS DOWN the engine BY DESIGN, well my-oh-my,
that's willful murder on the part of the manufacturer! Now we've got a
CASE!!