Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?
in [Toyota]
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From: SMS on 24 Nov 2008 11:24 Tegger wrote: > Those sites that pull filters apart to see what they look like inside tell > you absolutely nothing useful at all. You're wrong. Those cut-apart evaluations tell you a couple of things. 1. They tell you which filters to absolutely avoid due to exceptionally poor construction. 2. They show the amount of filtering area, which can vary widely. 3. At "http://www.knizefamily.net/minimopar/oilfilters/index.html" he tests the anti-drainback valves for leakage. For instance he looks at detail in one filter I use, the one for a lot of Toyota and Lexus V6 engines, the Toyota 90915 and its after-market variants. The Toyota brand filter had the largest filtering area, and the anti-drainback valve, while plastic, did not leak. The Toyota filter had about 60% more filter area than the Fram, and the Fram anti-drainback valve leaked. He doesn't test the jobber filters used by a lot of oil change franchises, which cost them $1-1.50 each. I know someone that owns a franchise that does a lot of oil changes, and he keeps Toyota and Honda OEM filters for his family, and his good customers. The Toyota filters sell for $4-5 on sale at the dealer. They'res just no reason to use anything but the Toyota OEM filter, it's not worth the risk. > 1) Use the correct OEM oil filter sold by your automaker's local dealer. > 2) Use a major brand-name oil that displays the API starburst. This is true. Of course there are no major brand oils that don't have the API Starburst. There are some synthetics that can't meet the API requirements, such as some of the Amsoil products that have too much ZDDP, and that could damage your catalytic converter over time, though of course Amsoil says that this won't happen.
From: Tegger on 24 Nov 2008 11:26 "C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)removemindspring.com> wrote in news:492ac4a9$1 @kcnews01: > > "Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message > news:Xns9B605F2BF279Btegger(a)208.90.168.18... >> HiC <brassplyer(a)yahoo.com> wrote in news:8455880c-4d03-4ce4-a7eb- >> 59162df7508a(a)w34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com: >> >>> I see opinions of the "I swear by" type all over the map. Anyone >>> know >>> of a good site that shows the truth about which brand/type of oil & >>> filter performs the best? Thinking in the passenger car realm. >>> >>> >> >> >> There isn't any. Not such that I've ever been able to find online, >> anyway. >> >> Those sites that pull filters apart to see what they look like >> inside tell >> you absolutely nothing useful at all. > > I have cut open of bunch of filters open myself (mostly FL820S > Competitors and a few Toyota and Nissan filters).I did learn useful > information. There are some things you can tell just by looking and > measuring - type of anti-drain back valve, type of relief valve, total > amount of filter material, general type of filter material, general > quality of construction. And some things you cannot tell by just > looking - filtering efficiency (some manufacturers provide this), > actual filter capacity, flow rate, relief valve release point, burst > strength of the filter can. I would contend that if you cut open a > filter and see a hard rubber relief valve, a sparse amount of filter > material, sloppy internal construction, and a crummy looking relief > valve, you might decide that filter was not a good choice. None of this tells you anything, sorry. "Crummy" /looking/ components may /function/ just fine. In any case, there's no readily-available study of these things that tests for /function/, so all anybody can do is guess and organize beauty contests. > >> The safest things you can do: >> 1) Use the correct OEM oil filter sold by your automaker's local >> dealer. > > Maybe, maybe not. Honda has sold Fram filters in the past labeled as > Honda filters. Honda has used FRAM as an OEM for oil filters for at least 15 years. I'd think if there was a problem with them, FRAM would have been dropped as a supplier long ago. > Fram is not my favorite choice even if it says Honda on > the outside. Toyota dealers routinely sell replacement filters that > are radically different that the OE filters originally supplied on > some engines. I like the OE Toyota filters and go out of my way to buy > those (they cost more and dealers often don't stock them). Ford has at > times sold different Motorcraft replacement filters than the OE > filters originally on the engine (similar, but clearly different). > Some aftermarket filters appear to be significantly better made than > some OE filters. > >> 2) Use a major brand-name oil that displays the API starburst. > > You need to make sure the oil is the correct viscosity, grade, and > meets all the OE manufacturer's specs. For most US and Japanese > vehicles, the API service class (SL, SM, etc) can usually be depended > on to indicate the oil meet the vehicle manufacturer's warranty > requirements. For some European vehicles, this is not necessarily > true. You're absolutely right. Like the old acronym goes, "RTFM". It will tell you what you need to do. -- Tegger
From: Tegger on 24 Nov 2008 11:30 kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:ggek1g$md$1(a)panix2.panix.com: > Mark A <someone(a)someone.com> wrote: >>Fram makes a wide variety of oil filters, some sold under their own >>brand, and some sold under other brands. >> >>Most people agree that the lowest price Fram filter (About $2.50 at >>discount stores) is of questionable quality, but the one that sells >>for about $11.00 is quite good. It is unwise to lump all Fram filters >>into the same category. > > The problem is that you have to, unless you can tell WHICH one you are > getting. If you don't have proof of what grade you have, you must > assume it is the lowest possible. > OEM grade, at least for the imports, appears to be far higher than what those same companies sell in the aftermarket. A Honda FRAM-built oil filter is quite different from a FRAM filter in a FRAM box, despite the use of some common parts between the two. A Honda OEM Walker or Bosal exhaust will not at all resemble parts those same companies make for the aftermarket. It's the automakers' specifications that make the difference, not who actually manufactures the parts. -- Tegger
From: Tegger on 24 Nov 2008 11:35 SMS <scharf.steven(a)geemail.com> wrote in news:jvAWk.4957$8_3.1569(a)flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com: > Tegger wrote: > >> Those sites that pull filters apart to see what they look like inside >> tell you absolutely nothing useful at all. > > You're wrong. Those cut-apart evaluations tell you a couple of things. > > 1. They tell you which filters to absolutely avoid due to > exceptionally poor construction. Exceptionally poor /looking/ consruction you mean, not exceptionally poor /functioning/ construction. Until those beauty-contest sites perform some kind of /function/ tests, they tell you absolutely nothing except the non-news that ugly girls don't win beauty contests. > > 2. They show the amount of filtering area, which can vary widely. But they can't tell you how /good/ that filter medium is, which is the critical point. -- Tegger
From: "WindsorFox [SS]>" on 24 Nov 2008 11:39
Tegger wrote: > HiC <brassplyer(a)yahoo.com> wrote in news:8455880c-4d03-4ce4-a7eb- > 59162df7508a(a)w34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com: > >> I see opinions of the "I swear by" type all over the map. Anyone know >> of a good site that shows the truth about which brand/type of oil & >> filter performs the best? Thinking in the passenger car realm. >> >> > > > There isn't any. Not such that I've ever been able to find online, anyway. > > Those sites that pull filters apart to see what they look like inside tell > you absolutely nothing useful at all. It told me that the most expensive conventional filter (at the time) had pieces of cardboard glued to the edges of the filter media as end caps. > > The safest things you can do: > 1) Use the correct OEM oil filter sold by your automaker's local dealer. > 2) Use a major brand-name oil that displays the API starburst. > > -- "Boy, I've spent my adult life dealing with people like you. There are few things that intimidate me; and a post-adolescent, semi-literate cretin ain't one of them." - LSP972 |