22R carb float gas level drops overnight?
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From: jbclem on 30 Jun 2007 21:38 On my 1984 Toyota pickup, 22R engine, the float gas level is right where it should be (middle of sight glass) when it's running and right after shutting the engine off. But after a few hours, and especially overnight, the gas level drops down to the bottom of the sight glass, just barely visible. At that point it takes 15-20 turns to get the engine to start. Once it starts and runs, then it will always start on the first or second turn until that point that it's been shut off for a while. I checked the vent control device and it's plunger is free and working correctly as far as I can tell. I'm not sure where else to look...I don't see any evidence of gas getting into the oil but if that happens, what path would it take to get there? This happens everytime I park the car for more than an hour or two and I use the car every day...so if gas was getting into the oil I think I'd notice the oil level rising and the oil smelling of gas, which I don't. Any ideas about this...I had the same problem on my 1976 Datsun pickup except it took 3 days to reach this point and then it wouldn't start without starting fluid. Couldn't figure that out either. jc
From: SnoMan on 1 Jul 2007 06:45 On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:38:41 -0700, "jbclem" <jbclem1(a)charter.net> wrote: >On my 1984 Toyota pickup, 22R engine, the float gas level is right where it should be (middle of sight glass) when it's >running and right after shutting the engine off. But after a few hours, and especially overnight, the gas level drops >down to the bottom of the sight glass, just barely visible. At that point it takes 15-20 turns to get the engine to >start. Once it starts and runs, then it will always start on the first or second turn until that point that it's been >shut off for a while. > >I checked the vent control device and it's plunger is free and working correctly as far as I can tell. I'm not sure >where else to look...I don't see any evidence of gas getting into the oil but if that happens, what path would it take >to get there? This happens everytime I park the car for more than an hour or two and I use the car every day...so if >gas was getting into the oil I think I'd notice the oil level rising and the oil smelling of gas, which I don't. > >Any ideas about this...I had the same problem on my 1976 Datsun pickup except it took 3 days to reach this point and >then it wouldn't start without starting fluid. Couldn't figure that out either. > >jc > The gas is going to evaporate in the bowl, especailly when engine is hot. Your problem is not that but rather fuel supply because the fuel in bowl should be quickly replaced on startup. Check fuel pump, filter and maybe for a a restriction or vacum leak on suction side of fuel line slowing the draw of fuel from tank. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
From: jbclem on 1 Jul 2007 18:13 Thanks for the idea, I'll check the fuel pressure and the filter. But if there was a problem in this area, wouldn't it show up as a lack of power under acceleration or at freeway speeds? And is it really normal for 1/4-1/2" of gas to evaporate in the float chamber...an hour after shutting the engine off, when it is the hottest, the engine still starts up easily. So the evaporation must be happening after the engine has cooled. I agree that the fuel pump should be filling up the chamber immediately but here's another thing that's puzzling me: after the float gas level has gone down, it takes about 20 pumps to get the car to start. When you look down the primary venturi, there is an orfice (jet) that just barely dribbles out gas with each pump. Should this jet be showing a good strong squirt...or is it designed to barely dribble. On the cars I'm familiar with, old VW's, the accelerator pump nozzle gives a very good squirt with each pump. I wonder if part of the problem is in the accelerator pump area...or does this 22R carburator rely on another source of gas for it's starting charge. Let me know what you think about this. jc "SnoMan" <admin(a)snoman.com> wrote in message news:i81f831hcc204ovk67bo9qe27fepr17j7o(a)4ax.com... > On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:38:41 -0700, "jbclem" <jbclem1(a)charter.net> > wrote: > > >On my 1984 Toyota pickup, 22R engine, the float gas level is right where it should be (middle of sight glass) when it's > >running and right after shutting the engine off. But after a few hours, and especially overnight, the gas level drops > >down to the bottom of the sight glass, just barely visible. At that point it takes 15-20 turns to get the engine to > >start. Once it starts and runs, then it will always start on the first or second turn until that point that it's been > >shut off for a while. > > > >I checked the vent control device and it's plunger is free and working correctly as far as I can tell. I'm not sure > >where else to look...I don't see any evidence of gas getting into the oil but if that happens, what path would it take > >to get there? This happens everytime I park the car for more than an hour or two and I use the car every day...so if > >gas was getting into the oil I think I'd notice the oil level rising and the oil smelling of gas, which I don't. > > > >Any ideas about this...I had the same problem on my 1976 Datsun pickup except it took 3 days to reach this point and > >then it wouldn't start without starting fluid. Couldn't figure that out either. > > > >jc > > > > The gas is going to evaporate in the bowl, especailly when engine is > hot. Your problem is not that but rather fuel supply because the fuel > in bowl should be quickly replaced on startup. Check fuel pump, filter > and maybe for a a restriction or vacum leak on suction side of fuel > line slowing the draw of fuel from tank. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com
From: Dan G on 1 Jul 2007 19:59 Possibly there's a needle valve in the bottom of the bowl? A worn valve would allow the gas to leak into the manifold. The gas should be visible in the manifold. "jbclem" <jbclem1(a)charter.net> wrote in message news:bHVhi.587$YT5.371(a)newsfe04.lga... > Thanks for the idea, I'll check the fuel pressure and the filter. But if there was a problem in this area, wouldn't it > show up as a lack of power under acceleration or at freeway speeds? And is it really normal for 1/4-1/2" of gas to > evaporate in the float chamber...an hour after shutting the engine off, when it is the hottest, the engine still starts > up easily. So the evaporation must be happening after the engine has cooled. > > I agree that the fuel pump should be filling up the chamber immediately but here's another thing that's puzzling me: > after the float gas level has gone down, it takes about 20 pumps to get the car to start. When you look down the > primary venturi, there is an orfice (jet) that just barely dribbles out gas with each pump. Should this jet be showing > a good strong squirt...or is it designed to barely dribble. On the cars I'm familiar with, old VW's, the accelerator > pump nozzle gives a very good squirt with each pump. I wonder if part of the problem is in the accelerator pump > area...or does this 22R carburator rely on another source of gas for it's starting charge. > > Let me know what you think about this. > > jc > > > > "SnoMan" <admin(a)snoman.com> wrote in message news:i81f831hcc204ovk67bo9qe27fepr17j7o(a)4ax.com... > > On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:38:41 -0700, "jbclem" <jbclem1(a)charter.net> > > wrote: > > > > >On my 1984 Toyota pickup, 22R engine, the float gas level is right where it should be (middle of sight glass) when > it's > > >running and right after shutting the engine off. But after a few hours, and especially overnight, the gas level > drops > > >down to the bottom of the sight glass, just barely visible. At that point it takes 15-20 turns to get the engine to > > >start. Once it starts and runs, then it will always start on the first or second turn until that point that it's > been > > >shut off for a while. > > > > > >I checked the vent control device and it's plunger is free and working correctly as far as I can tell. I'm not sure > > >where else to look...I don't see any evidence of gas getting into the oil but if that happens, what path would it > take > > >to get there? This happens everytime I park the car for more than an hour or two and I use the car every day...so if > > >gas was getting into the oil I think I'd notice the oil level rising and the oil smelling of gas, which I don't. > > > > > >Any ideas about this...I had the same problem on my 1976 Datsun pickup except it took 3 days to reach this point and > > >then it wouldn't start without starting fluid. Couldn't figure that out either. > > > > > >jc > > > > > > > The gas is going to evaporate in the bowl, especailly when engine is > > hot. Your problem is not that but rather fuel supply because the fuel > > in bowl should be quickly replaced on startup. Check fuel pump, filter > > and maybe for a a restriction or vacum leak on suction side of fuel > > line slowing the draw of fuel from tank. > > ----------------- > > TheSnoMan.com > >
From: SnoMan on 1 Jul 2007 23:22
On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 17:59:21 -0600, "Dan G" <none(a)12345.org> wrote: >Possibly there's a needle valve in the bottom of the bowl? A worn valve >would allow the gas to leak into the manifold. The gas should be visible in >the manifold. This is possible but even still a good fuel system with a good pump would replace it quickly when cranking. He could add a eletronic boost pump to switch on before starting to fill bowl quickly if he does not find anything else wrong. If you do this you want a pump that is about 6 or 7 PSI max. I suspect the fuel pump is weak and while it can keep up with driveing demands it has little reserve and takes time to fill bowl. Also, it does no good to pump the gas pedal when bowl is empty. Wait a few seconds for bowl to start filling during crank than pump it. Try this, crank it for 4 or 5 seconds and do nothing, pause for a few seconds and then pump gas and crank it. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com |