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From: Ron Jones on 26 Nov 2006 17:31

I've got a RAV4 2006 V6 4WD

> Bad Stuff
>
Never heard of most of these complaints before from owners or from any of
the test reports!

> Controls - For the first hour I drove the car I would have said the worst
> feature of the vehicle was the bizarre collection of controls.
The steering wheel position was too low, even though it had a tilt
> wheel.

OK for me but I'm ~ average height

> The cruise control controls were the worst I have ever seen.
> They are on a little stalk located low behind the steering wheel. but the
> stalk turns with the wheel. If Toyota was going to all the trouble of
> using a stalk for the controls, I don't understand why they didn't but
> them on a fixed stalk.

A stalk not moving with the wheel would be VERY bad you'd have difficulty
using it when the wheel was turned. Its a bit low on the wheel but you learn
that in a few minutes.The cruise control works very well.. no engage lag and
holds uniform speed.

HVAC controls were not stupid. In my opinion the person or persons
> responsible for these should be fired immediately.

Huh... I think they are large and easy to use ... better than the auto air
controls in the limited model.

> Road noise - After getting over the controls, the actual worst feature of
> the car was the road noise. I was shocked by how noisy it was.

There is a lot more engine noise with the 4 cyl than V6 on acceleration but
I don't have a problem with wind noise. Maybe the roof rack x-beams were on
backwards.

> - Seats - The seats were uncomfortable for a long drive

I've heard there is a lack of thigh support for some long legged people. No
problem for me.

> Headlights - I found the headlight to be mediocre at best. They were the
> weakest I've used in a long time.

I like them ... lots of side elimination on low beam. Some people have
complained about the abrupt top edge to the elimination but I like that
feature and so do drivers of oncoming cars.
>..
> - Outside mounted spare tire. I have no idea why this is necessary.

Gives more interior storage space and easy to get at to change a flat.tire.
You might like crawling under the back to get a tire ... not me.

I wish the rear gate would hinge from the left though.

Best features for me. The 269 HP V6 is a rocket! One of the quickest
vehicles I've owned and it gets great MPG too!

rj






From: tanukiki on 26 Nov 2006 18:03

"C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:l0lah.3369$ql2.2603(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Over he Thanksgiving Holiday I had an opportunity to drive a 2007 RAV4
from
> Raleigh, NC to Columbia, SC and back. I thought I'd share my impressions.
>
> This RAV4 I drove is a base four cylinder front wheel drive automatic
> transmission model with no significant options other than a radio upgrade
> and a distributor installed Park Pilot System.
>

I have pretty much the same vehicle except it's a 2006.

*snip*

> Bad Stuff
>
> - Controls -

*snip*
> However, the HVAC controls were a train wreck. It is not that they were
> poorly located, it was that they were difficult to read, and the
ridiculous
> outside wheel hiding the readings except in the little windows was
> unnecessarily complicated. I have never seen such a poor design.

I actually like the HVAC controls better than anything I've driven before. I
find they are easy to use.

>The shift
> lever was also needlessly weird. It is not just the little steeped gate I
> found offensive, it was the way you could easily select third instead of
> fourth. You may need to see one to understand, but to select 4th you pull
> the lever down through a series of steps at reverse and neutral. Once at
> fourth, you move the lever sideways (towards the driver) to select third.
It
> is very easy to accidentally select third, particularly once you have been
> moving the lever side to side to get from park to fourth. I drove for ten
> miles in third before I realized I was in third.

I agree. the shifter takes some time to get used to and I still don't like
it much. I would have greatly preferred a manual transmission anyway but
it's no longer an option :-(

>The outside power mirror
> controls were located on the center console, which seems silly.

Agreed. It's a weird placement choice although the windows adjust easily.

*snip*

> - Fuel economy - we averaged only a little over 21 mpg for the trip but I
> was driving fast (75+ on I40/I95/I20/I26). My Mom's old Grand Marquis got
25
> mpg making the same trip. The vehicle only had around 4000 miles, so maybe
> it will improve with usage.

I've never gone below 23 mpg in my RAV4 in any driving situations. Most of
the time I get about 26 mpg with 30% city/ 70% hwy driving with hwy speeds
averaging about 62-65. I just passed 4000 miles in my vehicle.

> - Headlights - I found the headlight to be mediocre at best. They were the
> weakest I've used in a long time.

I don't have any prblem with the headlights.

> - Park Pilot System - This was worthless. I have had factory installed
> systems on other vehicles and they worked great. This distributor
installed
> system was almost worthless.
> - Rear Door - I'd prefer a lift gate over the RAV4 Door..

I know a lot of people complain about this. I don't really care one way or
another...at least not enough to dissuade me from buying the vehicle.

> - Outside mounted spare tire. I have no idea why this is necessary. My old
> Vue and my Sister's Escape are both smaller but don't have a spare tire
> mounted on the rear door.

I much prefer to have the outside mounted tire if it gains me inside space
(which it does in the RAV4 w/o the 3rd row seats). I also do NOT want to
have to crawl under my vehicle to get to my spare.

> - Valve adjustment required - I can't imagine that Toyota is still selling
> engines that require routine valve adjustment. This is a procedure that
cost
> hundreds of dollars. This is inexcusable.
>
> All in all, I'd say the RAV4 was a better buy than a Vue and not as good
as
> an Escape. The RAV4's larger size is an advantage, but I felt the Escape
> rode better, has much better controls, is quieter, and is significantly
less
> expensive when comparably equipped. I know a lot of people would claim the
> RAV4 is more reliable, but I am not sure that reflects reality. My Sisters
> Escape is 6 years old and the only repair she has paid for was a new
cruise
> control cable (I installed it) for a total cost of less than $12.
>
> Ed
>

I have heard a lot of people have complained about the Vue's long term build
quality. I had a 2002 CRV that was really good to me although I drove it
like crazy. My brother bought a V6 Escape about the same time and sold it a
year later even though he liked it. It just had too many visits to the shop.
Even under warranty, it was too much a waste of his time having to take it
in.

JennL


From: Scott in Florida on 26 Nov 2006 20:04
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:09:44 GMT, "C. E. White"
<cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote:

> I can get from Raleigh to Columbia in 4 hours. It takes her 4.5
>to 5 hours

One of these days John Law will slow you down...LOL

--

Scott in Florida

From: Wolfgang on 26 Nov 2006 20:48
Check out the rapid depreciation on the Ford Escape too! Yotas cost more but
retain more of their value over the years.

"C. E. White" <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:l0lah.3369$ql2.2603(a)newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Over he Thanksgiving Holiday I had an opportunity to drive a 2007 RAV4
> from Raleigh, NC to Columbia, SC and back. I thought I'd share my
> impressions.
>
> This RAV4 I drove is a base four cylinder front wheel drive automatic
> transmission model with no significant options other than a radio upgrade
> and a distributor installed Park Pilot System.
>
> Good stuff
>
> - Size - I liked the size. Plenty of front and rear room, with good cargo
> room too.
> - Seats - The rear seat folds flat, a big improvement over my old Vue.
> - Seating room - Head and leg room were excellent. Rear seat room was good
> as well.
> - Transmission - The transmission shifted flawlessly. Even though it was
> only a four speed, I never felt that it was in the wrong gear, or that I
> even needed another gear.
> - Performance - The engine, although not particularly refined, was
> powerful. It accelerated briskly and had no problem cruising at 85 mph.
> There were only two of us in the vehicle for this trip, but I believe it
> would have been more than adequate even with a full load. The engine and
> transmission were well matched. I definitely felt that the
> engine/transmission combination was far superior to my old Vue and at
> least as good as my Sister's V-6 Escape (the transmission was definitely
> better). I doubt if the 4 cylinder RAV4 would outrun the V-6 Escape, but I
> don't care. The RAV4 four cylinder had very good performance. I am not
> sure I would pick the V-6 unless I need to tow something.
> - Handling - Although the ride was not great, the handling was very good.
> - Features - Even the base model had really good equipment - ABS,
> Electronic Limited Slip, Electronic Stability Control, Side Air Bags, Aux
> input for the audio system, power locks, power mirrors, power windows. My
> only complaint was that the vehicle did not come with floor mats.
> - Steering - I have seen complaints about the steering, but I found it to
> be just fine.
> - Fit and finish - The car was well assembled. Although the interior
> didn't look "expensive" it was properly assembled. There was not a squeak
> or a rattle anywhere.
> - Routine Maintenance - All the items to be checked are readily available.
> The oil is easy to change. Only negative was the requirement for routine
> valve adjustment.
>
> Bad Stuff
>
> - Controls - For the first hour I drove the car I would have said the
> worst feature of the vehicle was the bizarre collection of controls. I
> don't think I have every gotten into a vehicle with a worse
> organized/designed collection of controls. The signaling controls,
> headlight controls, and wiper washer controls were on stalks and were
> fine. The radio was also fine. However, the HVAC controls were a train
> wreck. It is not that they were poorly located, it was that they were
> difficult to read, and the ridiculous outside wheel hiding the readings
> except in the little windows was unnecessarily complicated. I have never
> seen such a poor design. The shift lever was also needlessly weird. It is
> not just the little steeped gate I found offensive, it was the way you
> could easily select third instead of fourth. You may need to see one to
> understand, but to select 4th you pull the lever down through a series of
> steps at reverse and neutral. Once at fourth, you move the lever sideways
> (towards the driver) to select third. It is very easy to accidentally
> select third, particularly once you have been moving the lever side to
> side to get from park to fourth. I drove for ten miles in third before I
> realized I was in third. The outside power mirror controls were located on
> the center console, which seems silly. The control to dim the instrument
> panel light was off on the side of the dash where the mirror controls
> should have been. The door locks and windows controls were fine. The
> steering wheel position was too low, even though it had a tilt wheel. The
> cruise control controls were the worst I have ever seen. They are on a
> little stalk located low behind the steering wheel. but the stalk turns
> with the wheel. If Toyota was going to all the trouble of using a stalk
> for the controls, I don't understand why they didn't but them on a fixed
> stalk. After the first hour or so I got used to all this weirdness, and I
> assume if it was my car I'd get over the strangeness., but I don't think
> I'd ever think the HVAC controls were not stupid. In my opinion the person
> or persons responsible for these should be fired immediately. I assume
> they were designed by a graduate of an American design school. I can't
> imagine any other person who would do something so silly.
> - Road noise - After getting over the controls, the actual worst feature
> of the car was the road noise. I was shocked by how noisy it was. My
> Nissan Frontier truck with all terrain tires is quieter on the highway
> than the RAV4 was. Both wind and road noise were excessive. It was far
> nosier than either my old 2003 Saturn Vue or my Sister's 2001 Ford Escape.
> I am sure part of the problem was the tires. They were very sensitive to
> changes in road surface, but they were never quiet. But even if the car
> had quiet tires, the wind noise was excessive.
> - Ride - not as good as either my Vue or my sisters Escape. It was about
> on par with my Nissan pick-up. The handling of the RAV4 was better than
> the Vue, but not as good as the Escape.
> - Engine noise - I constantly read about how sophisticated Toyota 4
> cylinder engines are. I think they must be comparing them to lawn mowers.
> The engine was not as smooth as the 4 cylinder Ecotech in my old Vue at
> idle or cruise. When pushed hard it sounded like there was a mix master
> under the hood. I can't compare it to the Frontier or the Escape - they
> both have much smoother running six cylinder engines.
> - Interior quality - the interior design was very reminiscent of my old
> Vue but, it was definitely a step above the Vue, about on par with my
> Nissan Frontier, and a step or two behind my Sister's Escape (but her
> Escape is an XLT model, the RAV4 is a base model). The interior was all
> plastic all the time, but at least it was properly assembled (something I
> wouldn't claim for the Vue).
> - Seats - The seats were uncomfortable for a long drive (but they were
> more comfortable that the seats in the Frontier - even if they looked
> worse).
> - Fuel economy - we averaged only a little over 21 mpg for the trip but I
> was driving fast (75+ on I40/I95/I20/I26). My Mom's old Grand Marquis got
> 25 mpg making the same trip. The vehicle only had around 4000 miles, so
> maybe it will improve with usage.
> - Headlights - I found the headlight to be mediocre at best. They were the
> weakest I've used in a long time.
> - Park Pilot System - This was worthless. I have had factory installed
> systems on other vehicles and they worked great. This distributor
> installed system was almost worthless.
> - Rear Door - I'd prefer a lift gate over the RAV4 Door..
> - Outside mounted spare tire. I have no idea why this is necessary. My old
> Vue and my Sister's Escape are both smaller but don't have a spare tire
> mounted on the rear door.
> - Valve adjustment required - I can't imagine that Toyota is still selling
> engines that require routine valve adjustment. This is a procedure that
> cost hundreds of dollars. This is inexcusable.
>
> All in all, I'd say the RAV4 was a better buy than a Vue and not as good
> as an Escape. The RAV4's larger size is an advantage, but I felt the
> Escape rode better, has much better controls, is quieter, and is
> significantly less expensive when comparably equipped. I know a lot of
> people would claim the RAV4 is more reliable, but I am not sure that
> reflects reality. My Sisters Escape is 6 years old and the only repair she
> has paid for was a new cruise control cable (I installed it) for a total
> cost of less than $12.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


From: C. E. White on 27 Nov 2006 08:38


--
Regards,

Ed White
http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/ - my automotive opinions
http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/id7.html - my oil filter comparison
"Scott in Florida" <askifyouwant(a)mindspring.net> wrote in message
news:qbekm21ffn8u0614fptgj7q6b2mbhc4jrp(a)4ax.com...
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:09:44 GMT, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> I can get from Raleigh to Columbia in 4 hours. It takes her 4.5
>>to 5 hours
>
> One of these days John Law will slow you down...LOL

Maybe, but it has been my experience that "John Law" drives faster than I
do. I was maintaining a good speed, but I was never the "fastest" traffic on
the Interstate.

Ed


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