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From: hls on 10 Aug 2010 09:32

"homey" <homey(a)HotishMail.com> wrote in message news:Zvmdnf-
> VW did that with the new BUG and Toyota would too if they made anything
> worth buying. Doesn't last long for any of them.

VW did that in Houston around the time of the oil embargo, I guess around
the early 70's.

People were already in a heap of trouble, and then for them to increase the
cost of a VW was not appreciated at all. I dont know how many people
alive today remember this, but certainly havent forgotten their behavior.
From: Hachiroku ハチロク on 10 Aug 2010 15:37
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:19:45 -0400, homey wrote:

> On 8/9/2010 12:16 AM, john wrote:
>> "So you think the Chevrolet Volt electric car will cost too much? Tell
>> that to the Chevy dealer who has already decided to charge $20,000
>> over the sticker price.
>>
>> That's right. Months before the first Volt lands on a showroom floor,
>> there's enough excitement that the dealer -- who earns a living
>> calculating what the market will bear -- is charging nearly 50% more
>> than General Motors' asking price for the revolutionary car.
>
> VW did that with the new BUG and Toyota would too if they made anything
> worth buying. Doesn't last long for any of them.

Toyota has made cars "worth buying", and dealers have charged over sticker.
One of the more recent examples I can think of was the 1991 MR2. "ADMU"
(Additional Dealer Mark Up, a dealer's "fee" for actually having a car on
the lot) was $1700. Prius' were going for $2500 or more over MSRP.


Ooops...sorry for shooting your post full of holes.

From: Bob Cooper on 10 Aug 2010 16:48
In article <4g5166pcuqg4ri7sujgtkasdemtlo8tlq7(a)4ax.com>,
pgranzeau(a)cox.net says...
>
>
> Let's assume the Volt gets about 40 mpg when the engine is running. If
> you drive 400 miles a day, you get 10% better gas mileage, or 44 mpg.
> And if you drive 100 miles a day, you get 40% better gas mileage, or 56
> mpg.
>

Although much about the Volt isn't known, one thing that seems pretty
clear is it is targeted at consumers who drive about 40 miles a day, but
don't want to worry about being stranded with a dead battery, want the
ability to take occasional longer trips, and have a place to plug in.
That's a pretty big market.
Since it's motivated purely "electrically" it may not be suitable for
continual long distance driving with basically an ICE generator powering
electric motors to propel it.
The Prius is "mostly" driven forward by mechanical torque from its ICE.
From what little I've read the Prius has no issue with cross-country.
Don't know if that will be true with the Volt.
I might be wrong, but that's how I understand it now.


> I agree, $41,000 is too much for me, but I've always driven inexpensive
> cars (the current Prius is the most expensive car I ever bought, and the
> only one for which I ever paid more than $20,000. In fact I only paid
> more than $10,000 for two other cars, one of which I still have).
>
> GM needs to amortize the cost of developing the car, in the first place.
> They are using technology that American automakers have never used
> before. No part of the electric drivetrain has been made in the USA
> previously, nor have batteries of the type the Volt will use, either.
> While components of the Volt may never be reduced in cost to the level
> that we will be buying $18,000 Volts, surely the cost of production will
> fall as time goes on.
>
> When I still owned a home, I might have had the infrastructure to own a
> Volt--a 110V outlet and a power cord. I now live in an apartment, so
> owning an electric car I would not be able to charge is, unfortunately,
> not something that makes sense, and I'll just have to keep on driving
> the Prius.

All good points. The big questions are how the car will perform, and
how soon the price will come down.
It strikes me as a real good idea for a commuter/grocery car within its
battery charge range.
Just doesn't seem right for long range, but I could be wrong.
Offhand, the 10 or so commuters in my family travel 12-60 miles a day
but 3 live in apartments without a place to plug-in.
Don't think any of them would want the Volt at the suggested price
though.
Right now it's just promises.
Has to prove itself in the marketplace, and I won't bet either way.
This car could make or break GM.
Very interesting.


From: in2dadark on 10 Aug 2010 20:14
On Aug 9, 3:50 am, "Sharx35" <shar...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> "john" <johngd...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4fd01bbd-59a1-4f0f-bd19-b2fb813e9a75(a)z30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > "So you think the Chevrolet Volt electric car will cost too much? Tell
> > that to the Chevy dealer who has already decided to charge $20,000
> > over the sticker price.
>
> > That's right. Months before the first Volt lands on a showroom floor,
> > there's enough excitement that the dealer -- who earns a living
> > calculating what the market will bear -- is charging nearly 50% more
> > than General Motors' asking price for the revolutionary car.
>
> > If that's any yardstick, the 2011 Volt is drastically underpriced.
> > Supply and demand, baby. It's the free enterprise system."
>
> > Read more: Mark Phelan: Dealers' extra charge for Volt is simply
> > supply and demand | freep.com | Detroit Free Press
> >http://www.freep.com/article/20100808/COL14/8080504/1331/business01/D...
>
> Proving that there is a silly sucker born every minute. HELL will frigging
> freeze over before I pay ANYTHING over sticker for anything.

Especially now.
From: Agnasty Shagnasty on 11 Aug 2010 11:03


"Michelle Steiner" <michelle(a)michelle.org> wrote in message
news:michelle-98EC02.15383110082010(a)reserved-multicast-range-not-delegated.example.com...
> In article <MPG.26cb76f71bed6181989694(a)news.eternal-september.org>,
> Bob Cooper <bc(a)nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> From what little I've read the Prius has no issue with cross-country.
>
> I've driven a Prius from the Phoenix area to San Francisco and back,
> stopping only for fuel and food. It's about an 800 mile drive from my
> house.
>
You mean you can drive a Prius from Phoenix to San Francisco and back?
Amazing. It's a wonder what they can do with modern vehicles today.

On two occasions, I drove a vehicle from Tucson Arizona to Seattle
Washington! Would you believe that the vehicle was in good shape once I got
there?

I wonder if anyone has tried to drive from Los Angeles to New York?




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